So I got this thing right here. It's a 3:16 hack used to model something like Valve's cooperative FPS Left 4 Dead, but with a bit more of that roleplay stuff.
If that link doesn't work, you can get it from the bottom of the wiki page, under Files.
It isn't done yet, but it's getting there, but I have some non-design issues with it.
My ideal would be to release this game for free as a PDF (maybe with a voluntary donation to the Zombie Squad charity). Perhaps sell print-outs at cost-value at cons (Does this change anything?).
First off, have I filed enough serial numbers off to release the game without Valve being annoyed? As I understand it, the special infected are characters protected under copyright law. No idea if I can use them, or if I'm gonna have to change the names or even the concepts entirely. I'm certainly not going to market the game as the official Left 4 Dead RPG, but I would like to play in a setting very much like it.
Secondly and more importantly, I think the game text is close to playability without requiring that the players be already familiar with 3:16 (alright, not THAT close, but, ya know). To be blunt, Gregor, how do you feel about this hack being released as an independent spin-off game using your core mechanics? (Don't have to talk about this publicly of course, and I'll certainly take the file down if there's an issue).
Even if that's all cool, as I understand it, I'm going to have to heavily demarcate your core mechanics from the rest of the rules anyway, or it will look like your stuff falls under the Creative Commons license. Or I guess I could just ditch the CC license all together now that the game is pretty much mechanically complete (I can get permission from all the contributers, so, no problem there at least).
In anycase, I'll probably change the name to something less infringey.
Any advice?
Also, feedback on the actual game and its presentation is also, of course, welcome.
Cheers!
The Surprisingly Absurdist Suggestion
Submitted by SquidLord on Mon, 04/05/2009 - 23:47.
This might come as a strange suggestion but ...
Why not get in touch with Valve to make it the "official" L4D RPG? Especially if Gregor's OK with spinning it off as a stand-alone, if you were to put in an ad for the full-bore 3:16 and a few other indie products, Valve could bundle it in with the Steam distributions of L4D for free (it's tiny, hardly extra load), and there's a HUGE audience just waiting for something "board-gamey" to do.
Worst Valve can do is say "no," and you go off and file the serial numbers off as you were planning to do anyway. It would be very hard to end up in a worse position.
Valve has given away the game for free for a day's play, and they seem like an extremely experimental bunch when it comes to marketing. Sounds like a solid idea.
Legality
Submitted by Gregor Hutton on Wed, 06/05/2009 - 14:55.
Hi Rich
As you know the internet is a terrible place to get an answer about copyright. :-)
From my POV, I can't copyright mechanics but the text in 3:16 is mine. As long as you don't copy and paste my text and terms then you're OK. So, if you use the mechanics and principles but write the rules and terms in your own words you're absolutely fine as far as I can tell.
If you think it's a good stand-alone thing (and it could well be, I think it rocks, personally) then you could do that. You'll need to write in the system stuff in your own words, but you've already changed a lot of the terms and added twists to the rules, so it's partly there already.
I'll only object if you stick my words in your book if you see what I mean.
Hm. Asking Valve might be
Submitted by Richard Lacy on Wed, 06/05/2009 - 17:57.
Hm. Asking Valve might be fatal. Like, cos (again, only as far as I know) you have to actively defend your intellectual property for it to be defensible. Once they know about something that breaks their IP, they HAVE to try and shut it down, or they lose the right to stop any similar breach. Besides, they might've already sold the exclusive rights to a boardgame company or some such. Just, scary stuff I'd rather avoid. Dunno.
Gregor, yeah, alrighty, that's doable. My worry was mostly about not-being-an-ass. I mean, I can happily rename 'FA' and 'NFA' to 'Shoot' and 'Other', but everyone knows it's still your mechanic there.
Hm. Just as a tangential thing, I dunno about their arrangement, but The Princes' Kingdom is a DitV spin-off game that still uses DitV rules terms (eg. Fallout).
But as long as you're happy, then I'm happy. Let me know if there's anything else needs doing.
Cheers!
Vincent and Clinton have an
Submitted by Andrew Kenrick on Thu, 07/05/2009 - 13:23.
Vincent and Clinton have an agreement for The Princes Kingdom, so it is a formal relationship if not a hard and fast licensed game.
TPK
Submitted by Gregor Hutton on Thu, 07/05/2009 - 17:46.
Oh, yeah, The Princes' Kingdom was originally written as a gift to Vincent (for his three sons) -- so it has a different origin.
I think you can safely use some of the terms (I mean, almost every role-playing game uses Strength and Dexterity, right?) -- so I'd have no quibble with FA or NFA (I struggled to find anything else and I hoped someone surely would find words that were better). I wouldn't mind Round or Turn either (they're just so commonly used -- and I lifted them from just about every game I've ever played). But I'd prefer that people don't lift every term, y'know? Otherwise it just would be 3:16.
But you've already avoided this with things like "Revelations" (love that name!) rather than Flashbacks, and I think the text "may be shown in flashback..." (small "f" is perfectly fine and a nice tip of the hat to Flashbacks from 3:16).
Maybe the ranges could be better coloured by moving away from "Close, Near and Far" (they're common in a lot of games, though, and are a variant on Close, Medium and Long). Maybe something like "In Your Face" for Close and so on?
Like I say, in your case, you've already re-branded a bunch of terms and I'm pretty happy with that.
FA is For Attacking and NFA
Submitted by Richard Lacy on Thu, 07/05/2009 - 18:33.
FA is For Attacking and NFA is Not For Attacking. Like, duh. :D
Yeah 'Revelation' was a design thing. I like them to be secret or shameful, and I like them to be revealed to the other PCs when used (more chance of reincorporation). Flashback or not; doesn't bother me.
On the old charsheet I had "Too Close" and "Not Far Enough" just to play about, but given the tidginess of the new charsheets, I want some single words. I like "Surrounded" for "Close".
Thinking of calling the game 'Fight Infection'. Slight double-meaning, and describes what the PCs do.
Thanks again!